NOT!

Your definition is to narrow, argumentum ad verecundiam,literally translated means Argument from respect/modesty

Authority A believes that P is true.
Therefore, P is true.

So what happens when the authority is an expert, but is not impartial. That is, the expert is biased towards one side of the issue?
—
See wikipedia or fallacyfiles.org for a more thorough definition.

Re: Capacitance,

ca�pac�i�tance [kuh-pas-i-tuhns]
noun Electricity.
1. the ratio of an impressed charge on a conductor to the corresponding change in potential.
2. the ratio of the charge on either conductor of a capacitor to the potential
difference between the conductors.
3. the property of being able to collect a charge of electricity. Symbol: C
[Origin: 1905?10; capacit(y) + -ance]

Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1)
Based on the Random House Unabridged Dictionary, Random House, Inc. 2006.

So, the argument remains undisputed.

Deltrans charger is a true maintenance charger with the ability to “float/maintenance charge” a battery [and this is a better method to insure the long life of a battery as most battery manufacturers suggest] [and both large and small lead acid batteries have a need for a maintenance charge] the Shumacher does not have this ability, just the ability to turn itself on and off .And being cheap may not be the best in the long term survival of your batteries.

some links that back up what I’m saying
http:// removed and www spaced for moderation bot avoidance

argumentum ad verecundiam
fallacyfiles.org
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argumentum_ad_verecundiam

battery info.
www .batteryuniversity.com/partone-13.htm
pdf link warning- www yuasabatteries.com/pdfs/TechMan.pdf
ponderingfools.blogspot.com/2008/03/car-battery-myths-part-3-of-4.html

Ok, I should have said “and its potential for capacitance.”

Unfortunately, that still doesn’t make much sense. Capacitance is not capacity.

Capacitance is a measure of an electrical device’s ability to store electrical charge electrostatically. It is measured in Farads. Batteries generally have some capacitance, but it is usually vanishingly small.

Capacity of batteries, on the other hand, is a measure of how long a battery can convert chemical potential energy into electricity that performs useful work. It is measured in Ampere-Hours.

I assume you meant capacity, but the confusion only reinforces that you may have some misunderstandings of electricity.

Ad verecundiam is used to describe a fallacious appeal to an authority outside their area of expertise. If I was to say that the best medical doctor in the U.S. says the chargers are the same, and because he is a great man it must be true, that would be ad verecundiam. Since I am an expert (professional electrical engineer), and chargers are in my field of expertise, and because I sell them, then my comment was not ad verecundiam.

I don’t know if there is a name for the fallacy of dismissing comments by labeling them an incorrect logical fallacy.

I’m lazy and don’t like to type any more than I have to.

My problem seem to be with you understanding what I’m saying.

Maybe my fault, maybe yours?

“with the ability to dissapate its charge and capacitance,” Notice the word AND in that sentence.

I would loved to see a graphed output of both chargers,as they go through a charge cycle. As that would settle it once and for all.

One works by turning itself on and off at a set voltage, The other works through a series of steps to a progressively lower charge rate . = not the same

No, that’s not how electricity works.

>I should have said voltage, My bad shouldn’t be posting on coffee break.
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Re;
The Schumachers are intelligent chargers and are regulated as well as, probably better than, the regulators on the modern alternators. Modern alternators will still hit a discharged battery with a current much larger than 2 Amps, and their regulation circuits aren’t going to regulate as tiThe Schumachers are intelligent chargers and are regulated as well as, probably better than, the regulators on the modern alternators. Modern alternators will still hit a discharged battery with a current much larger than 2 Amps, and their regulation circuits aren’t going to regulate as tightly over the wide range of operating conditions as a stationery charger in a shed or garage.

>Modern VOLTAGE REGULATORS are pretty sophisticated and control voltage rather well, they need to, as todays engine control units/electronic ignition/electronic fuel injection don’t take kindly to out of range or surging power supplies. Yes, comprimises have been made to insure a quick recovery of the batteries charge versus the need for battery longetivity, but probaly not as much as you would think.
Many modern voltage regulators also control the alternators output.
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Re:
I believe that the scale of lead acid batteries has very little effect on the need for a maintenance charge to be maintained properly.

The scale does matter, and so does the chemistry and construction. Batteries that will see large and continuous current loads, accompanied by long periods of float (months to years) (deep-cycle) need to be treated differently

>Irrelevant conclusion.

Don’t both large and small [scale] lead acid cranking batteries require an optimized charge to maintain a long life? For that matter, don’t both deep cycle and starting lead acid batteries require the an optimized charge for long life?
I didn’t mention anything about charging style or rate.
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And where does this excess current go, if the battery charger/voltage regulator does not regulate it? Could it possibly be converted to something that might damage a battery?

It doesn’t “go” anywhere. It just doesn’t go. If your faucet is capable of delivery 100 GPH, but you only turn it on to a trickle, the other 99 GPH doesn’t “go” anywhere. Same with current. So, fortunately, it can’t be “converted” into anything, much less damage the battery.

Bad analogy.

You have a pipe[wire] that has both pressure[voltage] and flows an amount liquid {electrons[measured as amperage]} into a bottle [battery]

Assuming that you have pressure and flow what happens to the bottle when it can no longer contain what is being delievered?

for simplicities sake we won’t get into the battery being like a leaky bottle with a sponge in it. i.e. with the ability to dissapate its charge and capacitance.

> So are you saying that a battery can’t be overcharged? Or, charged at to high a rate?
and that electrolysis and heat are not the byproducts of excessive charging

I’m assuming that the Shumacher, as its literature asserts, is an on/off style charger and does not vary its voltage, as the Battery Tender does. Therefore, that the Battery Tender would lend itself to a longer battery storage life, especially for a deep cycle battery.

quote from their website
“Keeps 12 volt batteries charged. Fully automatic. Turns on and off as needed.”

————————————————————————————–

No, that’s not how electricity works. Current rating is the maximum current a charger will deliver into a completely discharged battery. Anything other than completely discharged, and it will deliver less than 2 Amps. When the battery is near the float voltage, the intelligent charger will deliver a few tenths or hundredths of an Ampere until it hits the float voltage, then it will stop completely until the battery voltage drops again below a set voltage a tad below the float voltage (for hysteresis).

The Schumachers are intelligent chargers and are regulated as well as, probably better than, the regulators on the modern alternators. Modern alternators will still hit a discharged battery with a current much larger than 2 Amps, and their regulation circuits aren’t going to regulate as tightly over the wide range of operating conditions as a stationery charger in a shed or garage.

I believe that the scale of lead acid batteries has very little effect on the need for a maintenance charge to be maintained properly.

The scale does matter, and so does the chemistry and construction. Batteries that will see large and continuous current loads, accompanied by long periods of float (months to years) (deep-cycle) need to be treated differently than batteries that see very brief moderate-to-high discharges followed by high charge rates at a continuous higher-than-float voltage (starting). That’s not even considering traction batteries, which see continuous moderate deep discharge currents followed by high-current, short-duration charging.

Because they serve different masters, different batteries have significantly different chemistry and construction. If you work with solar systems, you know starting batteries, deep-cycle batteries, and traction batteries are not the same and are not interchangeable, right?

And where does this excess current go, if the battery charger/voltage regulator does not regulate it? Could it possibly be converted to something that might damage a battery?

It doesn’t “go” anywhere. It just doesn’t go. If your faucet is capable of delivery 100 GPH, but you only turn it on to a trickle, the other 99 GPH doesn’t “go” anywhere. Same with current. So, fortunately, it can’t be “converted” into anything, much less damage the battery.

Putting an intelligent charger like the Battery Tender, Sears, or Schumacher on a starting battery is treating the battery to the gentlest charging it will ever have.

Because current capacity has basically nothing to do with how good a maintainer it is (so long as it meets the minimum needs of the battery). It’s not going to actually deliver a constant two amps of charge unless the battery is sufficiently discharged to need it. It will deliver mere milliamps if the battery is near fully-charged, and stop when it reaches the float voltage.

And where does this excess current go, if the battery charger/voltage regulator does not regulate it? Could it possibly be converted to something that might damage a battery?

Then you had best unhook the alternator from your motorcycle and watercraft. It charges the battery at a much higher rate.
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I don’t usually leave my bikes running when i put them up for storage. These chargers where made for storage maintenance.
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Re:
Yet batteries in those toys that get regular use and are only ever charged by those high-current alternators last for years. Why is that?

They use Voltage regulators and rectifiers, and are not directly connected to high out put alternators

Most modern motorcycles use fairly sophisticated charging regulators and batteries last for 3-4 years. Older motorcycles that used a high amp charge had batteries that lasted at best 2 years. [This is for people that ride 10-25,000 miles a year, not fair weather 2000 mile summer riders]
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Re:
The simple bulk and float found in Schumachers is just as effective.

I believe the Schumachers are on/off style, they are either charging at their rated amperage or not charging at all.
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Re:
Those systems use many large deep-cycle batteries and sophisticated chargers. That’s really where the 4-step charging matters.

I believe that the scale of lead acid batteries has very little effect on the need for a maintenance charge to be maintained properly.

I deal with batteries in solar energy applications, and I’ve owned a motorcycle shop, and I’ve got an education in small batteries from remote control car racing.
I’ve spent many hours looking at a multi meter, while batteries both large and small, charge and discharge.

Then you had best unhook the alternator from your motorcycle and watercraft. It charges the battery at a much higher rate. Yet batteries in those toys that get regular use and are only ever charged by those high-current alternators last for years. Why is that? Because current capacity has basically nothing to do with how good a maintainer it is (so long as it meets the minimum needs of the battery). It’s not going to actually deliver a constant two amps of charge unless the battery is sufficiently discharged to need it. It will deliver mere milliamps if the battery is near fully-charged, and stop when it reaches the float voltage.

Don’t buy into so much of the marketing hype around the “4-step charging program”. The Battery Tender may actually perform those four steps, but with only 500 mA output, it’s not going to do much absorption charging, and for your typical starting battery a 4-step charger is nice but of zero real benefit. The simple bulk and float found in Schumachers is just as effective, and less damaging than the vehicle’s own charging system. I should know as I sell backup power systems for cellular sites. Those systems use many large deep-cycle batteries and sophisticated chargers. That’s really where the 4-step charging matters.

You don’t really want to charge small batteries like motorcycle and watercraft batteries with a high amperage charger, half an amp usually does the trick.
The battery tender is
“Complete 4-step charging program (Qualification, Bulk Charge, Absorption Mode, Float Mode)”
charger.

I’m doubting the Schumacher is as sophisticated.

Deltran also makes a 5 amp waterproof charger. among many others.

5amp charger
www.batterymart.com/p-battery-tender-plus-12v-5a-wp-battery-charger.html

selection of other chargers
www.batterymart.com/c-deltran-battery-tender-battery-chargers.html?utm_source=google&utm_medium=ppc&utm_term=battery%2Btender&utm_campaign=battery%2Btenders

Schumacher is about my favorite company for battery chargers and maintainers. They offer a weatherproof charger that has a street price of only $26, and delivers twice the current of the model featured in this article. They also sell a 1 Amp charger that can often be found in Wal-Marts for $18. (I have one of each and both work very well.)

If you’re partial to Sears, they have a DieHard branded 2 Amp maintainer on sale now for $20. I bought one during the holiday sales in December for $16. I’m very happy with it.