Comments on: Today’s Photovoltaics And You http://toolmonger.com/2008/02/21/todays-photovoltaics-and-you/ All tools. All the time. Your source for news, information, and reviews of hand tools, power tools, and tools of all kinds. Sat, 22 Nov 2008 20:28:06 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6.1 By: Hutch http://toolmonger.com/2008/02/21/todays-photovoltaics-and-you/#comment-240611 Hutch Sat, 23 Feb 2008 00:47:03 +0000 http://toolmonger.com/2008/02/21/todays-photovoltaics-and-you/#comment-240611 The best place resource on how to plan it, and do it yourself for solar and or any alternative energy system. The have killer system overview articles by folks who have done it, including graphical system diagrams and parts lists with cost breakdowns. http://www.homepower.com/ The best place resource on how to plan it, and do it yourself for solar and or any alternative energy system. The have killer system overview articles by folks who have done it, including graphical system diagrams and parts lists with cost breakdowns.

http://www.homepower.com/

]]> By: Fred http://toolmonger.com/2008/02/21/todays-photovoltaics-and-you/#comment-240379 Fred Fri, 22 Feb 2008 15:23:35 +0000 http://toolmonger.com/2008/02/21/todays-photovoltaics-and-you/#comment-240379 When a company buys a piece of capital equipment (say we buy a big dollar value tool) you need to know your cost of capital (discount rate etc.) to make a payback analysis. You can not just do a simple straight line calculation because paybacks and costs in 2008 are worth more than what you might have in 2009 and so on. You need to discount the cash flows back to present worth. Then you can add in (if you can monetize them - even better) what you consider to be the value of the externalities or fringe benefits. In some scenarios - you would not make a capital outlay unless it pays back in 3-4 years because your investment money would be better invested elsewhere. I also note that my utility does not provide net-metering - so if I installed a solar panel and had excess production - I would either need to store it (batteries are expensive) or forego the benefit. When a company buys a piece of capital equipment (say we buy a big dollar value tool) you need to know your cost of capital (discount rate etc.) to make a payback analysis. You can not just do a simple straight line calculation because paybacks and costs in 2008 are worth more than what you might have in 2009 and so on. You need to discount the cash flows back to present worth. Then you can add in (if you can monetize them - even better) what you consider to be the value of the externalities or fringe benefits.
In some scenarios - you would not make a capital outlay unless it pays back in 3-4 years because your investment money would be better invested elsewhere.

I also note that my utility does not provide net-metering - so if I installed a solar panel and had excess production - I would either need to store it (batteries are expensive) or forego the benefit.

]]> By: Bee http://toolmonger.com/2008/02/21/todays-photovoltaics-and-you/#comment-240375 Bee Fri, 22 Feb 2008 15:20:47 +0000 http://toolmonger.com/2008/02/21/todays-photovoltaics-and-you/#comment-240375 hey USA wake up. 6 cent a KWH electricity is gonna go the way of the gas prices and plane tickets any minute now. Here in NY City we pay 23 cents... in germany I heard its 35cents. they unplug their appliances when they go away for the weekend! bet they don't have too many 1971 beer fridges out in the garage over there! Really 6 cents is out of control cheap... and your gonna have to replace your appliances a couple times over the next 20 years as they SLOWLY and then fastly increase efficiency every couple years like cars and computers... planned obselescence. hey USA wake up. 6 cent a KWH electricity is gonna go the way of the gas prices and plane tickets any minute now.

Here in NY City we pay 23 cents… in germany I heard its 35cents.
they unplug their appliances when they go away for the weekend! bet they don’t have too many 1971 beer fridges out in the garage over there!

Really 6 cents is out of control cheap… and your gonna have to replace your appliances a couple times over the next 20 years as they SLOWLY and then fastly increase efficiency every couple years like cars and computers… planned obselescence.

]]> By: Toolaremia http://toolmonger.com/2008/02/21/todays-photovoltaics-and-you/#comment-240320 Toolaremia Fri, 22 Feb 2008 12:50:58 +0000 http://toolmonger.com/2008/02/21/todays-photovoltaics-and-you/#comment-240320 ToolFreak: Been done: www.oksolar.com/roof/ ToolFreak:
Been done: http://www.oksolar.com/roof/

]]> By: Toolaremia http://toolmonger.com/2008/02/21/todays-photovoltaics-and-you/#comment-240318 Toolaremia Fri, 22 Feb 2008 12:45:53 +0000 http://toolmonger.com/2008/02/21/todays-photovoltaics-and-you/#comment-240318 Toolfreak, Been done: http://www.oksolar.com/roof/ Toolfreak,
Been done:
http://www.oksolar.com/roof/

]]> By: ToolFreak http://toolmonger.com/2008/02/21/todays-photovoltaics-and-you/#comment-240237 ToolFreak Fri, 22 Feb 2008 09:09:56 +0000 http://toolmonger.com/2008/02/21/todays-photovoltaics-and-you/#comment-240237 When they start making panels that come in the form of shingles, I'll bite. 30K for a 25 year warranty on the roof, with the probability of seeing a return on the investment halfway through the warranty period, compared to repacing a shingled roof 2 or more times in the same period for thousands with no return at all? Sure. When they start making panels that come in the form of shingles, I’ll bite. 30K for a 25 year warranty on the roof, with the probability of seeing a return on the investment halfway through the warranty period, compared to repacing a shingled roof 2 or more times in the same period for thousands with no return at all? Sure.

]]> By: Zathrus http://toolmonger.com/2008/02/21/todays-photovoltaics-and-you/#comment-240099 Zathrus Fri, 22 Feb 2008 03:28:23 +0000 http://toolmonger.com/2008/02/21/todays-photovoltaics-and-you/#comment-240099 Stuart, depends on what research you read, but a recent article in Scientific American indicates otherwise -- 90% less carbon emissions and toxic emissions even lower than that. And what maintenance and repairs are you expecting? As the article mentions, there's a 25 year warranty on most systems, excluding the batteries (which last 10-15 years). I'm not sure where Sean got the 12 year estimate, although it's probably a good general guideline. In some places you can do far better (I've heard 6-10 years for pretty recent installs), but it's probably not a good idea to bet on that. Of course, given that the lifetime of the system is 30+ years, even with the output falling off over time (and it does), you'll make a hefty savings in power even if rates don't go up (which would be... surprising). Stuart, depends on what research you read, but a recent article in Scientific American indicates otherwise — 90% less carbon emissions and toxic emissions even lower than that.

And what maintenance and repairs are you expecting? As the article mentions, there’s a 25 year warranty on most systems, excluding the batteries (which last 10-15 years).

I’m not sure where Sean got the 12 year estimate, although it’s probably a good general guideline. In some places you can do far better (I’ve heard 6-10 years for pretty recent installs), but it’s probably not a good idea to bet on that. Of course, given that the lifetime of the system is 30+ years, even with the output falling off over time (and it does), you’ll make a hefty savings in power even if rates don’t go up (which would be… surprising).

]]> By: Stuart Deutsch http://toolmonger.com/2008/02/21/todays-photovoltaics-and-you/#comment-239865 Stuart Deutsch Thu, 21 Feb 2008 20:50:44 +0000 http://toolmonger.com/2008/02/21/todays-photovoltaics-and-you/#comment-239865 Solar cells do not have as great an environmental payback as you think considering the research and production costs, in terms of non-renewable resource consumption and any resulting pollution. I also doubt that the estimated 12-year investment return takes into account any possible maintenance or replacement costs. Solar cells do not have as great an environmental payback as you think considering the research and production costs, in terms of non-renewable resource consumption and any resulting pollution.

I also doubt that the estimated 12-year investment return takes into account any possible maintenance or replacement costs.

]]> By: Tony http://toolmonger.com/2008/02/21/todays-photovoltaics-and-you/#comment-239792 Tony Thu, 21 Feb 2008 18:40:21 +0000 http://toolmonger.com/2008/02/21/todays-photovoltaics-and-you/#comment-239792 If I live in a snowy spot, do I need to be up on my roof every time we get more than a dusting? If I live in a snowy spot, do I need to be up on my roof every time we get more than a dusting?

]]> By: Simon http://toolmonger.com/2008/02/21/todays-photovoltaics-and-you/#comment-239756 Simon Thu, 21 Feb 2008 17:38:59 +0000 http://toolmonger.com/2008/02/21/todays-photovoltaics-and-you/#comment-239756 Payback also comes in the form of less air pollution and no power outages. Monetary payback dramatically speeds up if energy prices go up. I think they will... And....it's cool.... Payback also comes in the form of less air pollution and no power outages. Monetary payback dramatically speeds up if energy prices go up. I think they will…

And….it’s cool….

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