Hands-On: LOX Screws
By Chuck CageNext we tried the same program with a LOX screw and its accompanying driver bit.
Right off the bat we could tell the difference between the LOX and Phillips in terms of pressure required to keep the bit in the recess; The LOX required much less pressure. In fact, we were able to drive the screws one-handed with no problem at all.
After 5, 10, and 15 cycles, the LOX screw remained essentially unchanged. Its bit still engaged easily and required little downward pressure to keep it there.
After 25. 50, and even 75 cycles, the LOX screw still looks great.
After 100 cycles, we got sick of driving and removing it — and ran out of room in our (now destroyed) 2×4. At this point the LOX screw still looks virtually unchanged. You can see (below) a few “burrs” around some of the points in the recess, but the bit still engaged fully with no trouble at all.
We suspect that we’d need to drive the LOX screw hundreds more times before we’d see any effective degredation of the recess.
Summary/Conclusion
When you compare the LOX’s 100+ cycles without stripping to the standard Phillips’ 15, it’s pretty obvious that the LOX people have something good going. They are indeed — as LOX claims — easier to drive and much, much less likely to strip.
We’re not sure that you’d want to use LOX screws exclusively as you do have to keep (and locate) the special bit every time you want to work with one. But if you were planning to buy a large number of screws for an outdoor project — like a deck, for example — it’d probably pay to give LOX or one of their distributors a call.
We checked with construction material supplier Grabber (one of LOX’s featured distributors) and found that they carry a variety of LOX-type fasteners for different applications. Currently, LOX fasteners are sold only in bulk, though LOX told us they’re in the process of developing a small-box sales plan.
To put things in perspective price-wise: Grabber, for example, sells a bulk load of approximately 2,500 “Stainless Steel Bulge LOX 2 Type 17 10 x 2-1/2″ screws for $378.43 — about $0.15 per fastener. They sell a similar “Stainless Steel 10X 2-1/2″ Bulge Head” screw for $175.74/2,500 or $0.07/fastener.
So, you’re paying about twice as much per fastener for the LOX recess. It is, however, a significant convenience to have each screw drive correctly (and with little force) each time. How much is that worth to you?
One final note: If you’re a serious professional fence or deck builder, Hitachi distributes LOX fasteners in chains designed to load into their auto-feeding screw guns. Neat stuff.
LOX-Recess Fasteners [LOX]
Some LOX Products [Grabberman.com]
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August 31st, 2006 at 3:38 pm
It still surprises me that the Robertson screw is not popular in any other country than Canada. For those of you that do not know about the Robertson screw, see this wikipedia article: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robertson_screw
The advantages of the Robertson Screw are:
1. Its driver bit sizes are standardized so you know that the bit that you have will fit the screw you have without having to “lean into it”
2. A Robertson screw will stay on the end of the driver bit, enabling you to drive a screw without having to hold the driver with one hand and the screw with the other.
3. The design resists “cam-out” like the LOX screw. I have not done any formal tests but I would suggest that it’s probably 5X’s better than a Philips’ screw (but not as good as a LOX screw).
4. It’s Cheaper than a LOX screw and bits are more readily available (in Canada at least)
Quentin.
August 31st, 2006 at 4:10 pm
Do we really need a new screwhead? Torx, square drive, hex drive. Where does it end?
It’s true that Phillips screws don’t take to multiple uses but for for wood screws, the wood doesn’t really take it that well either. For the most part, I consider woodscrews mostly permanent, driven once maybe twice. Things that need to be repeatedly disassembled I would use an insert and a machine screw.
I’m still waiting for the “Arthur head” screw to take hold.
August 31st, 2006 at 4:11 pm
I know torx get used quite a bit in automated assembly machinery because they can be vacuum sucked into a driver then have a rotating bit pressed into the fastener without it tearing up the bit or fastener. Phillips do the same thing in reverse when you use one of those drywall depth setter attachements. I wonder how these do when you put a moving bit onto a halfway sunk screw, or if they can be used with a drywall screw depth setter.
August 31st, 2006 at 4:23 pm
This really does appear to be nothing more than another attempt to use a patented “improvement” to try and increase revenue in a commodity market.
And as the first comment suggests, this is probably not much better than the Robertson (which rocks), the patent on which has already expired.
Philips was /designed/ to cam-out. It serves a purpose, of which woodworking should not be one, IMHO.
August 31st, 2006 at 4:48 pm
Just my favorite screw tip: If you have a screw that is camming out/stripped, grab some loose grit from under your bench grinder, mix with oil or spit and apply to the screw head and driver. The grit bites into the recess and driver and allows you to get it out (or in)…
They sell bottles of silicon carbide grit and oil for this purpose but spit/grinder grit is free and available.
August 31st, 2006 at 4:56 pm
Reasons why the Robertson screw remain unpopular outside of Canada are suggested in the Wikipedia article. It basically distills to issues of licensing proprietary technologies. Luckily, ninety years later, patents and licensing are no longer issues.
August 31st, 2006 at 5:30 pm
I’ve seen the square (Robertson) screws with more regularity in the last few years. If the LOX is to be successful they’re going to need to get the price down and get those screws in every store. I would think the manufacturing cost of the square drive would always be less, so this might only be a flash in the pan.
August 31st, 2006 at 6:37 pm
Actually, the camming out of the Philips head makes it perfect for woodworking and hanging sheetrock. The head cams out before you use so much torque that you strip the threads in the wood. Once I used square drive screws to fasten two sheets of plywood together. Every other screw stripped out due to too much torque from the drill. Yes,
you could change the torque setting on your drill but why bother. You don’t need to do that with Philips screws in my experience.
August 31st, 2006 at 9:59 pm
Trey makes a good point. There is a drywall screw tool called a “Dimpler” that uses the camming action of the Phillips head screw to set it at a certain distance just below the surface of the drywall without overdriving it.
August 31st, 2006 at 11:13 pm
Trey, the problem with using the cam-out “feature” of the Philips is that it destroys the driver bit. That’s why they sell “chaw-cups” with 100 bits in it at the hardware store; you go through several a day if you install drywall for a living. With the Robertson and a clutch, your bit lasts years. And you never slip out of the screw and clobber the drywall.
September 1st, 2006 at 12:51 am
Philips screws were specifically designed for use with power tools, so that, instead of accidentally driving right into whatever you were screwing, they would ‘cam out’ when the head came in contact with the material. Robertsons, on the other hand, were designed to /never/ ‘cam out’ or slip. Except for drywall, I can’t think of any contractors I know who use Philips screws when Robertsons are available. It is simply better technology.
September 1st, 2006 at 8:48 am
I use both Phillips and Robertsons daily. Both work, but the Robertson’s is superior. The Square drive does cam out during hard use (esp. with harder woods). As someone who is often paid to fix other people’s mistakes, I always cringes when I find an old Phillips to remove. Old sqaure drives can be sticky too. I’d welcome an industry wide switch to LOX simply because you never know when you need to remove a screw, and anything that makes that easier is something to consider.
Building decks with hard woods like Ipe and Teak would also be an ideal situation for the LOX. Both of those woods can casue cam out quite easily, even with a square drive screw. You could pre-drill, but with 1000 screws that could get tiresome.
Some of the same “cons” against the LOX are the same I heard about the Robertson drive (and probanly the same things some said about the Phillips when it was developed to supplant the straight slot).
The market will determine acceptance. I expect to see the LOX around for awhile.
September 1st, 2006 at 3:18 pm
[…] Hands-On: LOX Screws Professional fence and deck builders know that there are some better alternatives to the Phillips head for heavy-duty driving. LOX is one of the newest, and we tested it by repeatedly driving and removing a single screw — something any experienced carpenter would studiously avoid. The LOX screws fared exceedingly well compared to Phillips-head, but many readers questioned its high cost — and whether it’s really a necessary improvement over the Robertson type. […]
September 6th, 2006 at 9:45 am
[…] Plus, the debate continues regarding the need for a new screw head. […]
November 27th, 2006 at 12:51 am
I wonder if the Phillips and Lox screws in the demo were verified to be identical in all respects other than the shape of the driving recess. Granted that there are advantages to the geometry of the Lox, but the screws photographed seem to be of different alloys and thread patterns. A made-in-China mild steel zinc-plated Phillips against a grade-8 Lox is hardly a fair test.
What about the clutch-head? That seems to have merit as well.
August 29th, 2007 at 12:21 pm
[…] LOX screws — the ones with the funky drive recess — really do work, as we proved last year. We drove and pulled one of these literally ’till we got tired of doing it — we had to wear welding gloves to hold the screw — with almost no visible cam-out. […]