Comments on: SawStop vs. “The Industry” http://toolmonger.com/2006/08/14/sawstop-vs-the-industry/ All tools. All the time. Your source for news, information, and reviews of hand tools, power tools, and tools of all kinds. Fri, 05 Sep 2008 11:42:36 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6.1 By: John Schutz http://toolmonger.com/2006/08/14/sawstop-vs-the-industry/#comment-230214 John Schutz Tue, 12 Feb 2008 03:08:31 +0000 http://toolmonger.com/2006/08/14/sawstop-vs-the-industry/#comment-230214 Right now I am rehabing a nearly severed left thumb....I am definately interested in the Saw Stop. $35,000 dollars worth of surgery and hospitol bills tell me that it is a good investment. It's an expensive saw, but a lot cheaper than getting your hand mangled. Right now I am rehabing a nearly severed left thumb….I am definately interested in the Saw Stop. $35,000 dollars worth of surgery and hospitol bills tell me that it is a good investment. It’s an expensive saw, but a lot cheaper than getting your hand mangled.

]]> By: Toolmonger » Blog Archive » Back In The Day: A Year Ago This Week On Toolmonger http://toolmonger.com/2006/08/14/sawstop-vs-the-industry/#comment-105839 Toolmonger » Blog Archive » Back In The Day: A Year Ago This Week On Toolmonger Thu, 16 Aug 2007 19:10:26 +0000 http://toolmonger.com/2006/08/14/sawstop-vs-the-industry/#comment-105839 [...] Last year at this time we posted our first bit about “SawStop vs. ‘The Industry’” which is still attracting attention.  The gist (as we understand it): SawStop makes a saws that protects hotdogs your fingers if you acceidentally get them into the blade.  SawStop want’s a crapton of cash to license the technology and is at the same time lobbying to make the tech mandatory on saws.  Everyone’s screaming that the other guy doesn’t care about safety. [...] [...] Last year at this time we posted our first bit about “SawStop vs. ‘The Industry’” which is still attracting attention.  The gist (as we understand it): SawStop makes a saws that protects hotdogs your fingers if you acceidentally get them into the blade.  SawStop want’s a crapton of cash to license the technology and is at the same time lobbying to make the tech mandatory on saws.  Everyone’s screaming that the other guy doesn’t care about safety. [...]

]]> By: Toolmonger » Blog Archive » Toolmongers’ Tools: Old Tools, New Tricks http://toolmonger.com/2006/08/14/sawstop-vs-the-industry/#comment-63015 Toolmonger » Blog Archive » Toolmongers’ Tools: Old Tools, New Tricks Wed, 09 May 2007 17:26:29 +0000 http://toolmonger.com/2006/08/14/sawstop-vs-the-industry/#comment-63015 [...] Mel recommends the Sawstop, a table saw that actually stops fast enough to avoid damage when you get your finger caught in the blade.  It works by measuring capacitance and conductivity, and it actually works.  We were blown away when we originally wrote about it, and we later followed up with an interesting link to Sawstop’s alleged “battle against the industry.”  It’s all great reading, and it appears to be a truly valuable product. [...] [...] Mel recommends the Sawstop, a table saw that actually stops fast enough to avoid damage when you get your finger caught in the blade.  It works by measuring capacitance and conductivity, and it actually works.  We were blown away when we originally wrote about it, and we later followed up with an interesting link to Sawstop’s alleged “battle against the industry.”  It’s all great reading, and it appears to be a truly valuable product. [...]

]]> By: Dick http://toolmonger.com/2006/08/14/sawstop-vs-the-industry/#comment-38992 Dick Sat, 24 Mar 2007 00:20:46 +0000 http://toolmonger.com/2006/08/14/sawstop-vs-the-industry/#comment-38992 We purchased the saw about a year ago. I got my fingers into a blade a couple of years ago (didn't lose any) when a piece of wood shifted suddenly. We built a full enclosure blade guard. When I saw this innovation, there was no question. With employees, I never want to get the call! I don't care whose fault it is! We have replaced FOUR cartridges so far...VERY expensive...two because of operator error cutting metal laminate, and two appeared to malfunction (cartridge fired, but blade was not spinning, or not very fast). Mfg replaced first one. Well built saw. Piece of mind is worth the price if you have workers! We purchased the saw about a year ago. I got my fingers into a blade a couple of years ago (didn’t lose any) when a piece of wood shifted suddenly. We built a full enclosure blade guard. When I saw this innovation, there was no question. With employees, I never want to get the call! I don’t care whose fault it is! We have replaced FOUR cartridges so far…VERY expensive…two because of operator error cutting metal laminate, and two appeared to malfunction (cartridge fired, but blade was not spinning, or not very fast). Mfg replaced first one. Well built saw. Piece of mind is worth the price if you have workers!

]]> By: Buster- SawStop Dealer NC http://toolmonger.com/2006/08/14/sawstop-vs-the-industry/#comment-25115 Buster- SawStop Dealer NC Thu, 22 Feb 2007 17:10:07 +0000 http://toolmonger.com/2006/08/14/sawstop-vs-the-industry/#comment-25115 I have a customer that asked about the wet wood issue. I spouted the retoric from the manufacturer, and the customer took me to task. He uses only self cut wood, and sent me samples ranging from 1 day cut to 1 year cut. The SawStop Saw worked beautifuly. SawStop safety cartridges WILL NOT FIRE until you get up to approx. %50 saturation (THAT IS A BUNCH OF WATER). At approx 40%-50% (STILL A BUNCH OF WATER) the power to the motor will stop without break activation. You are correct about the bypass mode, if there is ever a question about your material. Run one piece in bypass and the SawStop Saw will tell you if the break would have fired. I have sold many of these saws without a single complaint, it is by far the best made saw on the market and does infact come with a European style riving knife and the most useable blade guard I have ever encountered. Reliability is higher than any other brand we sell. SawStop is a first class company that thus far has supplied any improvements at no cost to every owner (that of course is subject to change). Everybody at SawStop will always answer the phone and there is none of the push this button or that button nonsense. FIRST CLASS all the way. The idea is hopefully you will never have to replace a cartridge.....but wouldn't be nice to know that if you slip (short board kicks up and you hand keeps going...into the blade) that technology is there as a safe guard. Buster- Dealer NC 704-572-1172 I have a customer that asked about the wet wood issue. I spouted the retoric from the manufacturer, and the customer took me to task. He uses only self cut wood, and sent me samples ranging from 1 day cut to 1 year cut.
The SawStop Saw worked beautifuly. SawStop safety cartridges WILL NOT FIRE until you get up to approx. %50 saturation (THAT IS A BUNCH OF WATER). At approx 40%-50% (STILL A BUNCH OF WATER) the power to the motor will stop without break activation.
You are correct about the bypass mode, if there is ever a question about your material. Run one piece in bypass and the SawStop Saw will tell you if the break would have fired.

I have sold many of these saws without a single complaint, it is by far the best made saw on the market and does infact come with a European style riving knife and the most useable blade guard I have ever encountered.

Reliability is higher than any other brand we sell. SawStop is a first class company that thus far has supplied any improvements at no cost to every owner (that of course is subject to change). Everybody at SawStop will always answer the phone and there is none of the push this button or that button nonsense. FIRST CLASS all the way.

The idea is hopefully you will never have to replace a cartridge…..but wouldn’t be nice to know that if you slip (short board kicks up and you hand keeps going…into the blade) that technology is there as a safe guard.

Buster- Dealer NC
704-572-1172

]]> By: Toolmonger » Blog Archive » You Said It: Best Reader Comments, 6/16/06 - 6/23/06 - all tools, all the time. http://toolmonger.com/2006/08/14/sawstop-vs-the-industry/#comment-651 Toolmonger » Blog Archive » You Said It: Best Reader Comments, 6/16/06 - 6/23/06 - all tools, all the time. Wed, 23 Aug 2006 21:51:32 +0000 http://toolmonger.com/2006/08/14/sawstop-vs-the-industry/#comment-651 [...] SawStop vs. “The Industry” generated a good bit of very educational comments this week — far too much to relate here.  You’ll have to check it out for yourself. [...] [...] SawStop vs. “The Industry” generated a good bit of very educational comments this week — far too much to relate here.  You’ll have to check it out for yourself. [...]

]]> By: Chris http://toolmonger.com/2006/08/14/sawstop-vs-the-industry/#comment-591 Chris Sat, 19 Aug 2006 06:31:13 +0000 http://toolmonger.com/2006/08/14/sawstop-vs-the-industry/#comment-591 O.k. first off, every shop is different so no one saw is going to work for everyone but that said there is a huge range in training and ability when it comes to woodworkers. We have been using two SawStop for over a year now at school, in a learning enviroment it easily pays for itself. One has gone off once by accident, yeah it was $80 but did not ruin the blade. Like someone already mentioned, $1200 + $80 for the occasional misfire is less than a trip to the emergency room. O.k. first off, every shop is different so no one saw is going to work for everyone but that said there is a huge range in training and ability when it comes to woodworkers. We have been using two SawStop for over a year now at school, in a learning enviroment it easily pays for itself. One has gone off once by accident, yeah it was $80 but did not ruin the blade. Like someone already mentioned, $1200 + $80 for the occasional misfire is less than a trip to the emergency room.

]]> By: Andy http://toolmonger.com/2006/08/14/sawstop-vs-the-industry/#comment-585 Andy Sat, 19 Aug 2006 00:53:58 +0000 http://toolmonger.com/2006/08/14/sawstop-vs-the-industry/#comment-585 I work in theatre, and we've had a LOT of discussion about the SawStop on an industry mailing list I'm a member of over the last few years. When the issue of wet wood came up, it was quickly noted that there would be a bypass switch to temporarily disarm the brake while cutting wet wood, which would otherwise set it off. I believe I'd read that it doesn't destroy the blade, but I could be wrong. Do you have any information supporting that, or are you just guessing (it sounds like a guess from your saying "it appears to", and to muddy something like this up with guesses isn't the best way to form a good opinion about it :-) Again, I could be wrong about the blade thing, too, but we should find the real answer before arguing about that! I work in theatre, and we’ve had a LOT of discussion about the SawStop on an industry mailing list I’m a member of over the last few years. When the issue of wet wood came up, it was quickly noted that there would be a bypass switch to temporarily disarm the brake while cutting wet wood, which would otherwise set it off.

I believe I’d read that it doesn’t destroy the blade, but I could be wrong. Do you have any information supporting that, or are you just guessing (it sounds like a guess from your saying “it appears to”, and to muddy something like this up with guesses isn’t the best way to form a good opinion about it :-) Again, I could be wrong about the blade thing, too, but we should find the real answer before arguing about that!

]]> By: Michael http://toolmonger.com/2006/08/14/sawstop-vs-the-industry/#comment-582 Michael Fri, 18 Aug 2006 23:40:23 +0000 http://toolmonger.com/2006/08/14/sawstop-vs-the-industry/#comment-582 $80 (plus your blade cost, as it appears to destroy the blade) is cheap versus a trip to the emergency room, but like I said before, costly if it fires off accidently. I do think that the saw is attractive to guys that have employees as it lessens the chance of paying for someone elses' hospital costs and the associated responsibilities that come with an injured employee. It's just not a good fit for me, or my shop. I'll readily admit that I'm not an "average" shop owner though. $80 (plus your blade cost, as it appears to destroy the blade) is cheap versus a trip to the emergency room, but like I said before, costly if it fires off accidently.
I do think that the saw is attractive to guys that have employees as it lessens the chance of paying for someone elses’ hospital costs and the associated responsibilities that come with an injured employee.
It’s just not a good fit for me, or my shop.
I’ll readily admit that I’m not an “average” shop owner though.

]]> By: James http://toolmonger.com/2006/08/14/sawstop-vs-the-industry/#comment-548 James Thu, 17 Aug 2006 01:57:22 +0000 http://toolmonger.com/2006/08/14/sawstop-vs-the-industry/#comment-548 I read recently, in a review of the saw (Fine Woodworking 184), that the majority of table saw injuries are actually due to kickback, not blade contact. If you want a safer saw, you should be looking at the anti-kickback features like riving knives and you should keep the blade guard on when possible. Of course, no matter what saw you have, you should make sure that your fence is aligned and that you're using it properly. Interestingly, the article did give the SawStop top marks, along with the Powermatic PM2000, and it pointed out that the brake costs about $80. However, the saw itself is about $1200 more than the PM2000. I read recently, in a review of the saw (Fine Woodworking 184), that the majority of table saw injuries are actually due to kickback, not blade contact. If you want a safer saw, you should be looking at the anti-kickback features like riving knives and you should keep the blade guard on when possible. Of course, no matter what saw you have, you should make sure that your fence is aligned and that you’re using it properly.

Interestingly, the article did give the SawStop top marks, along with the Powermatic PM2000, and it pointed out that the brake costs about $80. However, the saw itself is about $1200 more than the PM2000.

]]> By: Michael http://toolmonger.com/2006/08/14/sawstop-vs-the-industry/#comment-523 Michael Tue, 15 Aug 2006 13:27:24 +0000 http://toolmonger.com/2006/08/14/sawstop-vs-the-industry/#comment-523 It's an interesting technology, but as someone who cuts wet wood occasionally on my saw, I wouldn't buy it. The costs to replace the blade and cartridge are high. Fine if it saves a digit, but high if it goes off accidently. Nothing will compensate for common sense on the part of the operator. Gass might have had a better result if he hadn't approached the manufacturers the way he had, and an 8% royalty is high. the fact that he's trying to make it illegal for someone to sell a saw without technology like this is pretty rank. Although the market for second hand saws from private sellers will probably go through the roof. I am a furniture and cabinet maker, who also does restoration work on houses. I know quite a few guys who use tablesaws, none who have lost digits. The statistcs state that 3000 people a year are injured. What's the breakdown of users from that? What were the circumstances? It’s an interesting technology, but as someone who cuts wet wood occasionally on my saw, I wouldn’t buy it. The costs to replace the blade and cartridge are high. Fine if it saves a digit, but high if it goes off accidently. Nothing will compensate for common sense on the part of the operator.
Gass might have had a better result if he hadn’t approached the manufacturers the way he had, and an 8% royalty is high. the fact that he’s trying to make it illegal for someone to sell a saw without technology like this is pretty rank. Although the market for second hand saws from private sellers will probably go through the roof.
I am a furniture and cabinet maker, who also does restoration work on houses. I know quite a few guys who use tablesaws, none who have lost digits. The statistcs state that 3000 people a year are injured. What’s the breakdown of users from that? What were the circumstances?

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